The City of Laredo Airport Advisory Committee Meeting • April 12, 2007
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Blas Martinez: You guys continue eating while we start the meeting. I’m only going to bother you to stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance. (Pledge recited, meeting called to order, roll taken.
Present:
Blas Martinez
Rufino Lopez
Marcus Moreno
Margarito Benavides
Roberto Treviño
Hector Noyola
Absent:
•Jesus Romero
•Rick Garza
•John Bruce
Non-committee members present were LIA Director José Flores, LIA Operations Manager Humberto Garza, LIA Marketing Manager Salvador Rodriguez, and Consulting Engineer Bobby Hatcher of Chapman & Associates
Blas Martinez: I’d like to introduce the newest member of our committee Mr. Marcus Moreno who was appointed by Mike Garza. Marcus, welcome to the committee. We run a very open shop, you know, we express our feelings. Although after what happened to Mr. Imus I don’t know if we can speak as freely as we used to. Este, but whatever we can do to help. I know that you’ve gotten briefed by Mr. Flores. If not you will shortly get briefed.
(Banter and chit-chat re: Moreno orientation)
Minutes approved.
Martinez calls for an update by resident project engineer on construction regarding the apron construction project.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, we have Mr. Bobby Hatcher here who will make the report to the committee.
Bobby Hatcher: We are 94 days into the project, 210 calendar day project. There’s been 45 days added to the contract due to the contractor because of the problems we’ve had, generally the aviation apron. We’re still having a situation there. We’re still working on it. We did some drilling out there last week and found some water, a substructure problem that I had commented on last month in the area. I don’t think that’s the only issue, but we can confirm now that there is a substructure problem, some kind of problem under the structure. The contractor has brought a heavier piece of equipment, a 30-ton sheep’s foot at the request of several parties, and that’s on site.
Blas Martinez: Bobby, pardon me for interrupting, but I thought that we had this thing pretty much corralled in to where you said that maybe you would go to some treatment or something to abate that situation.
Humberto Garza: Mr. Chairman, what we had talked about. There were two options. Either lowering the compaction from 95 to 92 percent or option two involved new membrane addition to the entire apron, if I recall correctly. Am I correct?
Bobby Hatcher: Yes. There were a couple of options on the table at that point. Those were two of them. There were several things being discussed at that time but those were two of the more prominent options that were being discussed. Lowering the compaction to 92 to 93 was discussed by Frieze and Nichols and myself two months ago. That didn’t last but just a couple of days. And then Carrillo the contractor’s testing lab brought that up and put it in a letter and sent it to the City and to Frieze and Nichols. And then I think they considered that, but then the general contractor came up with a new design, well, not a new design, but a new formula that he wanted to try. He put that out for the City of Laredo and Frieze and Nichols to look at and they did and accepted it and told him he has to proceed, to go ahead and try that, which is what we are doing now at this time which is to take off the 12 inches of proposed subgrade for half of the apron and move it over to the other half and get to the proper elevation.
Roberto Treviño: Which is what? What is the proper elevation?
Bobby Hatcher: We have cut sheets for that. You have 15 inches of concrete pavement, you have 6 inches of base, and 12 inches of subgrade cut from the TOG, from the top of grade. I can give you the numbers but they wouldn’t ....
Roberto Treviño: Yeah,I understand that.
Bobby Hatcher: But the contractor proposed that below that, below the 12 inches of the proposed subgrade, that he would work 8 inches of the subgrade below that on his nickel at no cost to us.
Roberto Treviño: For half the apron?
Bobby Hatcher: He’s going to do it on the whole apron if it works. That’s the experiment, to see if it works.
Roberto Treviño: Is that what the compactor is in for?
Bobby Hatcher: The heavier machine was brought in because there’s been a lot of uh .....you know, everybody’s got an opinion. There’s been a lot of opinions that first the contractor wasn’t putting forth the proper effort, and of course this was all before we confirmed there was a substructure problem, but there was one note the contractor wasn’ putting forth proper effort and the machine wasn’t big enough, and all those things everybody goes through, and so he brought in a heavier machine to satisfy that, to make sure that’s taken off the table, which he’s done, and so he’s worked the bottom eight inches.
Roberto Treviño: When did they start this?
Bobby Hatcher: We started the day before yesterday.
Roberto Treviño: Are you still getting moisture up into it?
Bobby Hatcher: Well, it was a couple of days ago and we just now today started this serious action out there. We finished the eight inches. We got it to the required moisture that everyone was wanting. We sealed it off, rolled it in, got the compaction that we all agreed that we needed there and we rolled that in. And now yesterday afternoon late we put on the first six-inch lip of the proposed 12 inches that’s in the scope of work that’s out there now.
Roberto Treviño: 12 inches of caliche?
Bobby Hatcher: Subgrade. Of existing subgrade. That 6 inches is on there now and we’ve worked it on this new proposal from the general contractor and the densities are not making it, they’re still not making it. We’re working some more. We’re not done. We’re moving on, and we’re continuing to roll it like we have been.
Roberto Treviño: Trying to get it to the 95 or the 93?
Bobby Hatcher: Trying to get it to an average of 95, yes sir, on 15-57
Blas Martinez: We’re still at 95 right?
Bobby Hatcher: We’re still at 95 on modified 15-57.
Blas Martinez: So basically what this guy is doing is doing is of course 16 inches of concrete and them we go lower a good six.
Bobby Hatcher: Six inches of base, cement treated base, and then 12 inches of subgrade that we leave in, 12 inches of existing subgrade that we work and leave in.
Blas Martinez: Is that caliche they used for subgrade or just regular dirt?
Bobby Hatcher: No, it’s just regular subsoil, just regular dirt. It’s not caliche at all. It’s the existing dirt that’s there.
Roberto Treviño: And the problem with it, if I may — you tell me if I’m wrong – it’s the plasticity of it, in other words the moisture level of it, whether it expands or contracts depending on the amount of moisture in there and the amount it expands and contracts, right?
Bobby Hatcher: That’s right. The reason why we couldn’t mix anything....the soil is too cementous and it’s got too low of a PI to put lime in it or cement in it, and plus with the geotechnical report we just got back from the engineers, it’s got too much sulfate in it also, way too much sulfate so we can’t mix any. We’ve always known we can’t mix lime with it because the PI was too low, and now we know we can’t mix cement either.
Blas Martinez: When you all bored, where did you find the water, at how many feet?
Bobby Hatcher: Water was at eight feet. That’s from the TOG. We have a flow rate though, was what concerned me. The upheaval and the flow rate was what concerned me. I already knew, some people knew that we had water under there because of the previous borings ever done out here on this previous job. Well this map here, if you’ll look, you’ll see water all over the area. You have limestone all in this area here. There are some places you could probably drill out here and not find water, but there are going to be pockets weakening because the limestone here that’s pocketed the water in. If you remove the limestone, you’ll be holding the water here and have an upheaval.
Once you release the least resistance flow, it’s called a flow rate. The flow rates on the borings were moved off of it. Four minutes after we moved off the second bore we had a three-foot elevation. Six minutes later it was another foot and 20 minutes later it was another foot.
Roberto Treviño: Where? Where were the borings?
Bobby Hatcher: Here. They were dead center on location. Dead center of Phase II on the apron we were working.
Roberto Treviño: And there’s no problem out there by FedEx?
Bobby Hatcher: The northeast cargo area?
Roberto Treviño: No problems out there?
Bobby Hatcher: Because we’ve got a lot of shale and limestone over there, there are areas out here that you are not going to find water because of the limestone, and over there in that area as a matter of fact, there are some areas out there that Frieze Nichols waived us doing things because of the limestone concentration.
Roberto Treviño: So we’re 94 days into the contract. There’s 210 days of calendar days. You added 45 days, so you have 255 days and you’re 94 days into that.
Blas Martinez: You have 150 days left.
Bobby Hatcher: Yes.There’s going to be some more days. That’s not all.
Roberto Treviño: I’m sorry?
Bobby Hatcher: There’s going to be some more days. There will be some more days.
Roberto Treviño: Some more uh, uh, being behind schedule?
Bobby Hatcher: What I’m saying is there will be some more days submitted to the city.
Roberto Treviño: Added?
Bobby Hatcher Whether they approve it or not, I don’t know. They approved 45 days, and I’m saying the contractor is going to hit us with some more days.
Roberto Treviño: The contractor is going to hit us with more days at 245 days. What does that mean for the completion date?
(Discussion projects September finish date.)
Bobby Hatcher: Just add 45 days to the 210. I can expect probably another 30 days he’s going to hit these guys with now. I don’t know if they’ll approve it or not. I don’t know if he’ll get it or not, but I can tell you he’s going to hit them, and especially if this doesn’t work.
Blas Martinez: Pardon me, Bobby, do we have a choice? I mean, we need to work with this guy and if he needs another 20 or 30 days, I’d rather we get to the 95% that we were looking for than to just because we don’t want to delay any more. Is it causing any problems with our ... Is it totally out of the way? I’d rather have it done right. Bobby, you may be the hero for the people here.
Roberto Treviño: What about the geo-membrane idea?
José Flores: Well that’s in the contract if it’s needed, but Mr. Chairman, as far as time this project is not as critical as the runway project was.
Roberto Treviño: What it’s doing is affecting the operation? The GA’s.
José Flores: But that’s minimal.
Blas Martinez: Well, do we consider going into contract with the City to sell them a secondary water source?
Roberto Treviño: When do you decide the geo-membrane idea is something to try?
José Flores: The engineers have to make that decision.
Roberto Treviño: Well, I understand that. Let’s assume that this next trial doesn’t work, what he’s attempting on his own nickel.
Bobby Hatcher: He’s attempting the 8 inches below on his own nickel. Don’t be misconceived there. You’ll be getting a bill.
Roberto Treviño: If it doesn’t work would engineering then go to the geo-membrane, ‘cause that’s the only other choice you’ve got, or am I wrong?
Bobby Hatcher: No. Last year, I don’t know if you were here last year or not – I wasn’t – but if you notice this area where the worked was done last year. There was a re-design in there because they ran into the same situation.
Roberto Treviño: What was the solution there?
Bobby Hatcher: They went to the caliche that you’re talking about. My only point, has always been, I don’t agree with Mr. Flores when he says that it’s incidental or that it’s not that big a deal, and I’m not talking about the schedules that you have.
Roberto Treviño: I don’t agree with him either.
Bobby Hatcher: Well everyone’s got an opinion, and for me it’s time I gave you mine. I’m not talking about any other schedules that you have. I don’t know how it affects that. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about a domino effect on the money that 45 days is going to cost you and already has, that you don’t see yet. You’re going to see it. First off when you add 45 days, and it may just sound like 45 days to you, but you add 45 days now to the testing lab, 45 days to the consultants, 45 days to the suppliers, 45 days to Frieze and Nichols. I mean, you’re talking probably almost into the six figures already for that 45 days. You just don’t understand -- I don’t think you know that yet -- but that’s coming. The contractor is going to send you a bill for those 45 days.
Roberto Treviño: It is also a snowball effect. Beto (Humberto Garza), tell me if I’m wrong. This creates a problem for GA parking, gust control, debris on the ramps, and it’s a concern.
Humberto Garza: There is a domino effect like Bobby mentioned, but it’s being taken care of.
Roberto Treviño: I understand that, but it’s an added safety factor that isn’t necessary to continue beyond what it should be continued. Am I making any sense? In order to avoid....
Blas Martinez: Nip it now and go to whatever you and the engineering department, and you all and Frieze and Nichols get together, the staff, y ya go back into whatever solution is the one that we hope the cure will work.
Roberto Treviño: We know caliche works. Why experiment?
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, at some point in time the engineer is going to make a decision, and they have two or three days that they to work on this new procedure that Mr. Hatcher explained. There’s still some time and if they are not successful in reaching the 95% compaction, I’m sure the engineers are going to have to recommend something else.
Roberto Treviño: OK, let’s, let’s, this is again my thoughts on this. We know, and again correct me if I’m wrong, the same problems that are associated with Phase II were associated with Phase I.
José Flores: Mr. Hatcher was not here for Phase I, but the issues were somewhat similar. At that time we had caliche in stock so it was of minimal expense to go in there and remove the 12 inches of subgrade and replace it with caliche.
Roberto Treviño: All right now, so then that’s a proven fix for Phase I. Is the plasticity index on Phase I similar in nature to the Phase II. The problems with the subgrade, are they similar?
Bobby Hatcher: I wasn’t here but I saw the paperwork; I saw the testing report. They were the same.
Roberto Treviño: Again, going back to, and again I’m not an engineer and I don’t know anything about what you guys are doing or why you’re doing it and I don’t understand the bureaucracy, but I’m telling you this – the longer you guys have that hole open, the more you guys are opening yourselves up to problems on the actives, on the taxiways, on the ramps because everything just snowballs. You get debris on the ramps and that’s carried out on to the taxiways. Eventually it’s carried onto the actives. Everything’s going to be a problem in there. So the quicker you guys decide on something instead of waiting for this bureaucracy to work. If you know something is going to work, and we know it worked on Phase I, my suggestion is that somebody make a decision and stick the caliche in there and stop playing games and get that thing covered with concrete and we don’t have a problem.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, there’s no playing games. There’s a process.
(Backpedaling by Treviño and double talk).
Roberto Treviño: It’s an expression. I know you’re not playing games. What I am saying is forget the bureaucracy. Stop uh, uh, uh uh the idea that uh, well, we have to make sure that this is done and that procedure is done and that procedure is done. It’s a very simple procedure. What worked last time, and if we know this worked last time, instead of going through each step and determining whether something might work better, we already know something worked. Let’s go to that, fix it.
Blas Martinez: Would that be a tremendous increase in the project if we go to caliche?
José Flores: Yes it’s be a substantial increase....Mr. Chairman, yesterday we met with the contractor. We met with Rogelio Rivera and Mr. Ramirez and the contractor was very optimistic that with this new procedure that they just started two, three days ago, he was optimistic they would be successful when compacting the whole apron. So Mr. Chairman, what I’m saying is that, let this process that the contractor explained to our city engineer take its course.
Blas Martinez: All right, thanks. We don’t have a choice but to follow it, but if that fails, I mean, let’s go straight to the caliche.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, if that fails, Mr. Chairman....
Blas Martinez: Engineer, do you agree with that? Bobby?
José Flores: The recommendation, Mr. Chairman, (Flores trying to continue with contingency)
Humberto Garza: We’ll probably be at that point discussing it next week.
Roberto Treviño: And again this is simply from a laymans’ point of view, a common sense thing, and the things that I know that go on out there, it’s just a disaster waiting to happen. It’s just like I was talking about, like I’ve been screaming about the customs federal inspection station being over here on the terminal and they’ve got to go over there and then having to cross the access over here – it’s just safety issues that are not necessary. And if we know we can fix the problems, it might cost $150,000 more but how much more are these days that we are adding to the contract going to cost?
José Flores: It’s already past, Mr. Chairman. What I’m saying is let this process go forward in two or three days ....INTERRUPTION OF MR. FLORES
Blas Martinez: We just want to make sure that the engineer and Bobby get over there and if you guys see that it’s not going to work and if José Flores agrees and Rogelio agrees and Beto and the rest of us can, let’s just go – we’re not playing games – but let’s just go and look into the possibility to see if we can fix the problem with the caliche.
José Flores: At that time an alternative is going to have to be considered.
Blas Martinez: Fine.
Roberto Treviño: And again, this is only Phase II. You’ve got two other phases, am I correct?
José Flores: That are under design. No, no, no, no. Phase III and IV we have an opportunity --the plans are in the works right now -- to make some modifications.
Humberto Garza: We’ve been in discussion with the consultants.
Beto Treviño: That’s all, that’s what I am leading to. It also creates a problem for the FBO (fixed base operator) because it just snowballs because, and Beto, and I’m not playing engineer, but I am right in saying that any debris on the ramps are going to contaminate the taxiways and the actives eventually.
Humberto Garza: Your comment is correct, but I want to assure you that it is not happening. Safety is our number one priority.
Roberto Treviño: Absolutely, but that just adds to the staff making sure that it happens. All you need is for a screen not operating properly, or a broom not operating properly, or a driver not paying attention to that line and you’ll lose a....
Blas Martinez: Rufino, do you have a question.
Humberto Garza: Do you want to hear about the other areas of the project?
Bobby Hatcher: The northeast cargo apron. We have a problem right now with the contractor as far as the rock for the concrete. The contractor’s having a problem right now with the supplier, the rock supplier in Mexico. Evidently, he didn’t pay the bill, and he’s been cut off with the rock.
Roberto Treviño: Who’s the contractor?
José Flores: It’s the same contractor.
Bobby Hatcher: I got a call from Mr. Hill I guess about 10 days ago because the contractor wasn’t paying his bills. Of course, San Isidro called me right after that and made me aware the rock was being cut off. I went to the contractor. He told me what the situation was, so this has been for about a week. That’s the only rock source he has submitted and approved. That was a mistake. On all the other projects I’ve been on, it was required to have at least two sources in case something like this happened. When I got here the project had already started by a couple of weeks. Of course you know if we go to another rock supplier, you’re looking at a month or 28 days for the mix design.
Roberto Treviño: But this is a contractor problem.
Bobby Hatcher: This is a contractor problem.
Roberto Treviño: What did we put in Ramos’ contract... did we not say something about that as a condition. Because remember we brought him back and yeah, ok, you can do it, but you’re going to be under supervision, and that was this gentleman here. We had said no but the City said yes. We said no and City Council said yes. In their wisdom, they said yes. But you all put some caveats in it, did you not? Or Council put some caveats in it?
José Flores: Regarding what, sir?
Roberto Treviño: Regarding their performance? Did they not?
José Flores: No, no, there was no such motion made. Basically you have a contract that the contractor is supposed to adhere to. The contract is the one that stipulates all his obligations.
Blas Martinez: Did the contract call for two rock sources?
José Flores: It’s not for lack of supply; it’s his fault for not paying his bill.
Roberto Treviño: Is there a default somewhere?
Blas Martinez: Does anybody know –I’m sorry for getting ahead of you.Hashe already cleared his problem with the Mexico rock salesman?
Bobby Hatcher: No, he has not.
Blas Martinez: When is he gonna do that?
Bobby Hatcher: He’s been talking. Ramos flew down day before yesterday and has been in conference with this individual, my understanding is, and they have not yet reached an agreement. And when I say not yet, I mean as of about an hour ago. There’s been no agreement reached and there is no rock at San Isidro.
Roberto Treviño: How do we pay this guy?
José Flores: Monthly progress payments.
Roberto Treviño: Monthly progress payments?
Rufino Lopez: Is there a way we can go to the rock supplier and say, look, put the rock supplier’s name on the check as well, and that way the rock supplier will feel comfortable about bringing it up knowing that he’s going to get paid?
Blas Martinez: I don’t know that. That is a legal question. We need to find out. With the money that we give him he has to pay the different entities.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, if this persists, at the end of the project if there is any vendor that’s not been paid, at that point the city withholds payment.
Rufino Lopez: Why can’t we go to the guy, say, Look, help him out. We’re going to ensure that you’re going to get your money.
Mr. Flores: Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Hatcher can correct me on this. I inquired yesterday if the contractor’s been paid. Well, the contractor apparently hasn’t submitted a complete invoice for the past 30 days, 45 days. He’s not helping himself.
Roberto Treviño: Again, this is what council said. And I remember this specifically. Hey, give him this opportunity and if he messes up again, we’ll unload this guy.
José Flores: But in this case it’s different. The quality of work that he’s been doing especially in the northeast apron, it’s 100 times better.
Blas Martinez: There’s not work that we can evaluate, because there’s no rock!
Roberto Treviño: What kind of delays does that put..
José Flores: He has 210 days plus 45 days.
(Discussion of concrete pads, number of days left in the project.)
Rufino Lopez: Wasn’t this the guy that sold his company? So where are the principals? Where are the other people? We should write a letter to them saying this is what’s going on. Why are you smiling?
José Flores: Dejavu.
Rufino Lopez: Seriously wouldn’t you think that picking up the phone, writing a quick little note, copy Mr. Ramos so he doesn’t think he’s left out –We write a note to the folks up there –We’re entrusted, we’re a little concerned. We need for you to get the rocks.
Blas Martinez: I’m afraid on your radar we cannot communicate with them.
Rufino Lopez: I have an idea. We have a legal department. Have the legal department send them a letter today.
Humberto Garza: But the contractor is no longer Ramos. Ramos is the prominent figure, but he is no longer even the owner.
Blas Martinez: Did I miss something? Isn’t the contract between Ramos or whatever the company is and the rock company?
José Flores: The company got sold. It includes the name. It’s called Ramos, but it is a different principal.
Bobby Hatcher: Richard Kensle.
(Big HAHA about name Richard Kimble.)
Blas Martinez: OK, Where are we? It’s 6:10, and we’ve been on Item 1. My only concern is this. Are we in harm’s way with the new contractor? Who is talking to them? Have you’ve met with the new principle? Has he come to say, I’m the new owner?
José Flores: No, he has not. But Mr. Chairman, this issue with the aggregate, the rock material. Mr. Hatcher said an hour ago, it’s been resolved. Thirty minutes before this meeting I saw the project superintendent Mr. Kevin Black. He tells me that issue has been resolved and that they are moving rock material to San Isidro.
Roberto Treviño: Why didn’t you tell us this earlier?
José Flores: I didn’t have the opportunity.
Rufino Lopez: We didn’t give the guy a chance.
José Flores: Let’s hope that is a correct statement and that they are building up an inventory at San Isidro. That’s what he represented to me.
Hatcher: You have to remember though, he’s told me and Roberto that for the last four days.
José Flores: I’m just communicating what the gentleman told me.
Roberto Treviño: That work, and again I repeat that work is right around the Fed Ex ramp and you’ve got large aircraft, very heavy weight moving up and down right next to that.
José Flores: It’s under control, Mr. Chairman.
Roberto Treviño: I know it’s under control.
Hatcher: I’m not saying Mr. Black didn’t tell him that. I’m just saying Mr. Black talks a lot out there. He’s the general contractor, you know, and there’s times that they say what they need to say to me.
José Flores: If that isn’t correct, then....
Hatcher: Can I just finish sir, by saying about the rock thing that the contractor will get that resolved. OK. It’s in his best interest to do it and he knows he’s got to do it. He will do it. He’s just playing a game with his supplier. His faults are, and I know this for a fact. His faults are right now – he’s not having any problems with the northeast cargo apron, He is not scheduling-wise behind with the northeast cargo apron. So he’s not in a real big quandary right now haggling for five to seven days with his rock supplier. He will get it resolved, though. He knows he has to do, and he will. So what this gentleman said a while ago about cutting a check out to the supplier, yes, you can. That happens all over the country. Yes, you can do that. Do I recommend it? No, not unless it is absolutely necessary, because there are liability issues there. If you can avoid that you are better off. Don’t worry, he’s going to straighten out the rock issue. But to answer your question, yes, that’s done all the time with some big boys on some big jobs all over. They end up having to do it because it goes longer than five to seven days. It goes months where the GC goes busted. (Assurances that Ramos will get it done)
The biggest concern out here is the GA apron. You can get to a point where you can get a fix finally on anything. You get to a point sometimes to where you get to that arena where your timeline is up and you’ve spent more money or as much money on three months of doing what you’ve done in that area as opposed to just two months ago doing the damned fix that everybody was telling you to do. I think that’s the frustration that I have, and I think everybody knows that I am very frustrated and very stressed on this project.
Roberto Treviño: We feel your stress.
Bobby Hatcher: There are people involved in this damned project that shouldn’t be involved in it. They have no background to be involved in it. And part of our delays out there has been simply because of that.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, we got a lot of rough starts. I’d like to know which people shouldn’t be involved.
Bobby Hatcher: Mr. Flores knows I’m talking about him. I mean, he absolutely knows that.
Roberto Treviño: I guess we’re not helping matters with contributions especially by people like me who don’t know anything.
Bobby Hatcher: It’s one thing to have an opinion and ask questions. You hire consultants and design engineers and people like that for a reason. You hire them to come in and do a job and give you their counsel, and give you the benefit of their background and their credentials. If you don’t listen to them and you want to argue with people who you don’t have really have the right to argue with.....
Rufino Lopez: Sir, are you saying this rock thing is going to be handled within the next week?
Bobby Hatcher: Yeah, a couple of days. I’m talking about the GA apron, not the rock. I’m talking about the General Aviation apron the one that we’ve been having problems with the subgrade, the one we’ve been on for three months.
Blas Martinez: Well, Mr. Flores is the official airport director and you know, we go ahead, and always consider his opinion. He has literally been every step....
Bobby Hatcher: Well, you can continue to do that. I’m not telling you not to do that. But just like you had problems on the last phase and this one, you’ll continue to have that too. It’s your choice. You can continue to do that. I’m just telling you what that part of the problem is. You can document it. You can take it or not take it.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, I don’t make engineering decisions. I don’t make engineering recommendations.
Bobby Hatcher: Now see, you should be offended by that, sir.
José Flores: I don’t give orders.
Bobby Hatcher: You should be insulted and offended by this man telling you this right now, because I can show you 47 emails, more emails than anybody else has sent in all the companies combined. I can show you emails from this man that directly states that he’s advising somebody to do this or somebody to do that.
Rufino Lopez: The problem is our communication, because this is a hierarchy, if something is brought to our attention, and it’s wrong, we have to go to Mr. Flores. We’re basically prohibited from going to you. We can’t have access nor do we want to. We have to go to Flores. We can’t go to you. We have to go to Flores. He has to be accountable to us. He’s got to be the one that answers to us and the City. Poor guy, he’s in a spot. So I would say, he’s got to know what he’s got to know, because if he doesn’t know on his own volition, then we’re going to ask him to go find out.
Blas Martinez: And at the end of the day it will be his head that will roll.
Bobby Hatcher: You’re right about that.
Blas Martinez: Because of not being resourceful enough in getting.....(Unintelligible) You’re doing what he had to do.
Bobby Hatcher: Well, listen, yeah, I think some people are taking me wrong here. We’re not telling you not to do it. We’re not. Gentlemen, we’re not saying, don’t listen to him, don’t report to him, don’t keep doing... we’re not saying that. What I’m telling you is, you hired us as consultants to tell you what’s wrong. It’s documented. I’m telling you what’s wrong. I’m telling you from an engineering standpoint. I’m not talking about airport directors....I’m talking about construction and engineering. You hired me to tell you what the problems are. I guess you would really want to know what they are engineering, construction-wise. You keep doing whatever you want. I’m just telling you what the problems are. I’m telling you that you can’t make decisions about engineering or construction issues if you don’t have the criteria to do it, the background to do it.
Rufino Lopez: Let me also mention to you that this is just one of the projects you’re presently involved in. Your performance has been good. We’ve heard nothing but good things about you and this airport is going along great. We’re looking for tremendous growth. You have your foot in the door here, and we like what you do. So it behooves you all to know that we’re counting on you for our future expansion. So both of you need to really grab each other’s uh, knowledge and share, and come on, because he can’t work without you. He can’t report to us without you. And you kind of need his help a little bit because sometimes there’s questions that come up.
Bobby Hatcher: Well, I’ve never opposed that since I’ve been here.
Rufino Lopez: So let’s go with it. We like what we hear. You two are on the same page. I like it. I for one will give you all a vote of confidence all day long. Just go do something with Ramos. I don’t think I can give him a vote of confidence.
Bobby Hatcher: We’ve never opposed working with anybody. We’re going to continue to do that. We’re going to work
Blas Martinez: We know you will. We have a lot of faith both in you and Mr. Flores.
Bobby Hatcher: We’re also going to continue, though, to give truthful reports
Blas Martinez: And that’s what we want.
Roberto Treviño: That’s why you’re here. That’s what you’re paid for.
(Discussion about future meeting times.)
Blas Martinez: The cargo report for year 2007, Salvador.
José Flores: Mr. Chairman, we have one item of information of communications. On Monday’s City Council agenda there’s an item by Councilman Landeck regarding the Laredo Town Center and five acres of wetlands. Basically this is going to be a presentation by Jim Earhart.
Blas Martinez: To refresh our memories. We are in the process of selling the land across the street, and I’m sure ...... What we were going to do in the sale instrument is that there are five acres of wetlands in that area. The option of the owner, once he’d take over, was to move the five acres of wetland into the Chacon Creek and he’s going to develop 18 acres in the Chacon Creek area. Landeck in his wisdom came back and said, ‘No.! We can’t do that.’ Our agreement or in our bid said that he should have access –the bidder....
José Flores: The right to develop the entire tract.
Blas Martinez: That the bidder has the right to develop all of the 80 plus acres.
José Flores: Subject, subject to compliance with all the environmental regulations. So that’s the caveat. Even before the sale we have the whole property leased to that same bidder and in that lease he is also required to comply with all the environmental regulations. The lease, the sale, he has to comply.
Roberto Treviño: So what’s the problem?
José Flores: No. I’m just communicating there’s this item before city council on Monday.
Blas Martinez: What Landeck is trying to do, from what I understand....quiere parar todo, and if the sale doesn’t go through they’re trying just for those five acres which is just a waterhole. Where does it go? (Looking at a map.) Right here. See what he was going to do was move this. So it’s going to be the same thing. Now Earhart, Dr. Earhart, with all due respect, he’s saying, Que, you know, we the City can’t do that ‘cause we’re not working with nature. And Landeck agrees with him!
José Flores: There’s a petition going around town for people to sign.
Blas Martinez: Last I heard, a 100,000, 150,000 people had signed.
Laughter.
José Flores: The airport, when we constructed the terminals, we built this pond. This pond was not there, so we contributed to the wetlands. We did this pond as a secondary containment source. The first containment source is at the aprons where we have storm ceptors that intercept any fuel spills.
Roberto Treviño: And then it goes underneath Loop 20 and goes out into the pond?
José Flores: Right. What’s going to happen is that this pond will be relocated here.
Blas Martinez: At their expense.
José Flores: At their expense, and then they will put in storm ceptors or some kind of environmental ceptors within the parking lot of their development so then they are going to take some money of their own – it could be anywheres from one, two, to three hundred thousand dollars of their own and mitigate a wetland here on the Chacon creek. I don’t know the exact location.
Blas Martinez: The guy can come back and say ‘Wait a minute, I have a contract where I have access to the whole 88 acres. Hey, now you’re backing away. Sabes que? With the way the economy’s been going all over the country, I’ll go away and take my money.’
José Flores: City Council already approved the sale, final reading, so we’re waiting for the closing to happen. They have 60 days to closing.
Roberto Treviño: And Mr. Earhart’s presentation will be what specifically?
José Flores: Well, if you follow the petition that is circulating, it fails to mention that we have storm ceptors.
Roberto Treviño: I’m sorry. This petition that is circulating is saying what? That they don’t want to....
Blas Martinez: They want to leave everything intact.
José Flores: They are saying that this will contaminate Lake Casa Blanca. But they don’t mention the pond that’s going to go here. The Corps, I’m sorry, Texas Parks and Wildlife and I think there is one other agency have said they don’t have an issue.
Roberto Treviño: That they wouldn’t have an issue. It’s the Army Corps of Engineers.
Blas Martinez: and they already went and they petitioned the Corps to move the wetland or to mitigate it over there to the 18 acres.
Rufino Lopez: It’s interesting how they move ponds around.
Unintelligible discussion.
Roberto Treviño: The problem is the environmental issue regarding the cleansing the stormwater coming off of that 88 acre tract into the presa. What they are talking about is that area that without that wetland they will no natural form of filtration.
Rufino Lopez: There is no action you need from us?
José Flores: No.
Rufino Lopez: Well thank you for the information.
José Flores: You’re welcome.
Blas Martinez: You’re invited to City Council.
HAHAHAHAHA
Blas Martinez: Yeah. There’s an attorney involved in it, too.
Roberto Treviño: I think there are several attorneys.
Blas Martinez: What’s his name.
(Several mis-pronunciations of Altgelt. Alt-que?)
Blas Martinez: What’s the name?
Humberto Garza: Altgelt.
Rufino Lopez: No lo conozco.
Humberto Garza: It’s the son of Maria Eugenia Guerra.
Blas Martinez:Hay ‘ta luego! (LOTS OF LAUGHTER) Austin Powers! Salvador, Tell us about cargo. We’ve gone from discovering a secondary water source to now moving to a new presa.
